Hitting vs Swinging – Part 3 – Hitting
Continuing our series on Hitting vs Swinging, let’s now review the Hitting Stroke.
The hitting action is a bit the dark side of the moon when it comes to golf instruction. It seems that a vast majority of golf instructors (with the exception of The Golfing Machine Instructors of course) are simply unaware of its existence and mainly teach golf the "Swinging way".
This is very unfortunate because it is a very efficient way to strike the golf ball and to my opinion a very interesting alternative for strong or less flexible players.
Muscular Thrust
Unlike the Swinger who manipulates centrifugal force, the pure Hitter ONLY uses his right arm to activate the Primary Lever Assembly (that is the Left Arm plus the club as a whole).
For those interested, the muscle involved here is the right triceps as it is responsible for straightening the arm. So if you are a boxer you should give the Hitting stroke a try 
!
The main action involved here is a muscular thrust of the right arm against the Primary Lever Assembly.
The clubhead is not thrown into orbit by the pivot; Instead, the hitter pushes radially (against the radius!) against the shaft with his right arm only.
Think of it like pushing against one spoke of a bicycle wheel to put the wheel into motion – Swinging would make you drag the rim of the wheel.
The proper action is to straighten the right arm without flattening the right wrist in a piston like action.
Address: Impact Fix
It all starts at address – the Hitter usually sets up with his hands in a position that is called "Impact Fix":
This position, while not mandatory, allows for an easier pickup of the Primary Lever Assembly as a whole by the right arm (the right forearm takeaway). Also it establishes the proper impact alignments right away.
From this position all you have to do is to freeze your wrists into their position and move the whole thing back and forth with your right arm pretty much in a piston like motion.
A good way to feel this motion is, without a club, to hold your left wrist with your right hand and move your left arm back and forth. Simple enough? Well this is the principle of the Hitting motion.
Half Roll of the club face
Due to the way the club is moved, the clubface doesn’t open as much as the Swinging motion during the backswing and doesn’t close as much in the downstroke. Consequently, Hitting naturally produces what is called a "Half Roll" of the clubface: When you look at the clubface at both arms straight, you should see the clubface looking 45 degrees left (for righties) instead of 90 degrees left in the Swinging motion (full roll, clubface closed).
Funnily enough, this produces a no-roll feel which is very important to note as you might intuitively search to feel a roll.
This Half Roll also has a natural fade tendency. As a consequence, the Hitter tends to adopt stronger grips to counterbalance that effect and produce straight shots.
You should also take into account that the more forward the ball in your stance (Driver for example), the more the need for a closed face and a stronger grip because the more the layback of the clubface at this point.
Experience with your grip to find the correct amount of shut face to induce.
Face constantly looking at the ball
Another interesting fact is the way the clubface swivels during the swing.
Unlike the Swinger whose clubface almost immediately swivels against the plane of the swing, the Hitter doesn’t rotate the clubface but rather keep it "looking at the ball" during the backswing: The clubface stays at right angles against the face of the plane. This is the natural byproduct of the angled hinge and you must not intent to rotate it clockwise/open on the backswing or you will have to consciously rotate it back counterclockwise on the downswing for proper contact.
Establishing the Lag: Drive Loading
You will discover that the piston like action of the right arm produces a shorter backswing than the Swinger due to the position of the right elbow set to push against the shaft instead of pulling.
From there, usually the hands cannot go higher than shoulder high – which is called the Top.
But, from such a shorter backstroke, the tendency is to rush on the downstroke.
Make sure you give yourself enough time to transition from Top to Start Down and accomplish the necessary Drive Loading.
Uh? Drive Loading you said?
Let me explain: For the Hitter, an efficient way to establish the Lag is to resist the backstroke motion then perform a right arm thrust against this clubhead Lag striving to accelerate a pre stressed clubshaft from a slow startdown through impact and to both arms straight.
Here, the Pivot (Right Shoulder) must also provide the initial acceleration of the Power Package (Shoulders, Arms, Hands and Club).
But beware! From there, you only have your bent right arm to provide the Thrust. So, if the right arm begins to straighten too soon, you will have triggered the release, and you will run out of right arm before impact and product a nasty Clubhead Throwaway.
Slow Start Down
As previously mentioned, for the Hitter a slow Start Down is mandatory to allow for the right arm to properly get into position.
In the transition from the Top to Start Down think very Slow and very Heavy and that should do the trick.
A word about Pivot Action
Unlike the Swinging motion, the Pivot (the body) doesn’t perform the blast of the left arm off the chest. Instead its purpose is to put the right shoulder into position (closer to the ball – down plane) as a platform to push against.
Think of a sprinter pushing against his starting-blocks.
Think also of the action of a boxer: before delivering its punch the boxer will get his right shoulder into position closer to his opponent to strike him with maximum force. In the Hitting stroke, you have to move your right shoulder down plane to get closer to the ball and deliver the right arm thrust.
One more word about the Pressure Points involved in the Hitting Procedure
Again, to find the location of the pressure points involved in the Hitting action we’ll do a little drill: grab a club, put the clubhead against something heavy and try to push this thing not by dragging with your body but rather by pushing with your right arm.
You’ll easily identify 3 pressure points:
- Pressure point #1: The palm of your right hand against the aft section of the grip and you left thumb.
- Pressure point #2: The last 3 fingers of your left hand.
- Pressure point #3: The index-trigger-finger of the right hand resisting against the club wanting to stay behind.
Establish those specific pressures during you downstroke while performing the Hitting stroke to become an expert Hitter!
In the eye of the Hitter!
The Hitter thinks of delivering a cross line blow down and out from the top of his swing. As a result he mentally constructs a "Delivery Line" going down and out to "first base".
I thought it could be interesting and fun to show what the Hitter sees in his mind. This gives a very good sense of the Hitter’s intents during the stroke.
Click on the images to display the slideshow, and then use the PREVIOUS / NEXT controls to navigate through the images.
Summing things up
- Set up at Impact Fix and "freeze" your wrists alignments.
- Pick up the whole thing back in a "piston + fanning" like motion (a piston-only motion would make you look like starting a lawnmower which is not the motion we want).
- Perform what feels like a shorter backstroke as what you are used to.
- From the top, initiate a slow startdown by pushing against the shaft with your right arm only (pressure point #1 feel). The slow start down will give yourself enough time to get closer to the ball to deliver your blow.
- Drive it strongly down and out. Destroy the ground!
Swing sequence
As a reminder, here are the sequences of the Hitting Procedure. Click on the images to display the slideshow, and then use the PREVIOUS/NEXT controls to navigate through the images.
Hitting stroke video
Hitting stroke sequence
I’ve been anxiously awaiting this addition to the blog, and I am not disappointed. WONDERFUL job! I can’t wait to get to the range and work on some of your “feels.” Thanks very much for this wonderful website on G.O.L.F.!!!
Kevin
Thanks again Kevin. I had a lot of fun writing this post!
Specially the “Eye of the Hitter” – an idea I think I’ll come back with to show some important hands location from the driver’s seat!
Go Kevin, Hitting is fun and even if you prefer swinging it’s always nice to learn the different actions and add another handy shot to the arsenal.
CU soon!
John,
this is a great synopsis of “hitting” Kevin told me about your site. I went out yesterday and experimented w/ the hitting procedure per TGM. Im sold on hitting,it was so fun!!!
Thanks
Welcome aboard Coltsfan.
The Hitter’s action always amazed me because the shorter the backswing and the slower the startdown, the better the compression and the longer the shot!
Ice on the cake: the shorter the backswing, the easier to repeat the shot over and over!
How cool is that!?
It’s very cool, and hopefully will be easier on my back.
Peter Croker beleives a pushing action (hitting) creates less stress on the back than pulling or swinging. Whats your take?
thanks
I do think so:
In the Hitting stroke the role of the body is mainly to provide structure while in Swinging it is involved in the production of power.
Remember the power accumulators used in Hitting:
- Acc #1 – Left arm straightening
- Acc #2 – Left wrist uncocking
- Acc #3 – Transfer Power – Left forearm roll
and the ones involved in Swinging:
- Acc #4 – Pivot action – Blast of the left arm of the chest
- Acc #2 – Left wrist uncocking
- Acc #3 – Transfer Power – Left forearm roll
You can clearly see that the Swinger must use his body as a source of power while the Hitters uses his right arm instead.
Also, in a Swing, Centrifugal Force is in control of the shot. And sometimes, in an attempt to gain a few yards, one could throw it “too hard” and generate “too much” centrifugal force and “too much” stress on the body.
You throw it and you hold it – throw it too hard and you’ll have a hard time holding it!
In the Hitting stroke you are in total control of the power delivered – it’s only YOUR own muscular thrust – no surprises.
I would add that the “Blast of the chest of the left arm” of the Swinger is in its essence a more rotational motion of the body than the “Platform to push against” of the Hitter.
Hey yodeli great site. Awesome run down of the hitting stroke. You and a few others from a different site have really helped my game. I appreciate it.
Thanks Garagefan66, I am having a lot of fun doing all this and I’m proud it can help you and others to play better Golf.
By the way, stay tuned and subscribe to the RSS feed ( http://feeds.feedburner.com/GolfLagTips ) to be warned as soon as I’ll post something new
Hi John
Like Kev I have been coming back again and again waiting for the followup hitting article. Thanks very much for it.
At the moment I am working on my pivot so I’m just letting nature decide whether I’m hitting or swinging or probably switting at th emoment! But when I’ve got a good base I’m going to build the hit. As you noted, shorter should return more repeatable, and consistency is what I am seeking at the moment.
Thanks very much
Brendan
Great Weetbix and thanks for your patience!
The Pivot is still an interesting source of power.
Hitting is known for being accurate but doesn’t use body power…
What a dilemna!
Well Weetbix, in life nothing is completely black or white but more often Grey!
So, it is completely possible to use the pivot as a source of power (Blast of the left arm out of the chest) AND drive the primary lever assembly with the right arm!!!
But you better understand both procedures well before trying this – timing is key.
It is called a “4 barrel” hit because it uses all 4 power accumulators (4 1 2 3 in that order) and to my opinion it can take the best of both worlds (and it’s darn powerful!).
I also plan to write a post on that one.
CU Brendan.
I think I’ll stick with 3 barrel for now! Having enough trouble with that!
)
Wyse guy – resisting the devil’s temptation! lol.
John,
You said
“Remember the power accumulators used in Hitting:
- Acc #1 – Left arm straightening
- Acc #2 – Left wrist uncocking
- Acc #3 – Transfer Power – Left forearm roll
and the ones involved in Swinging:
- Acc #4 – Pivot action – Blast of the left arm of the chest
- Acc #2 – Left wrist uncocking
- Acc #3 – Transfer Power – Left forearm roll”
You meant accumaulators used in “Swinging” not hitting right?
Hi Coltsfan.
In doubt you can find the proper accumulators and their release order in the Swinging and Hitting posts.
But for the record:
Power accumulators used in Swinging are: 4,2,3.
They also release in this sequence order (one after each other) but can also overlap a bit. For example: Acc #4 has not finished its release while Acc #2 is starting its release.
For the Hitter, the #4 accumulator (body power) is replaced by the muscular thrust of the right arm, the #1 power accumulator.
So, in Hitting the accumulators are: 1,2,3.
But in Hitting their release is simultaneous! They fire at the same time and they all gradually release during the downstroke. The actively straightening Right Arm is responsible for this simultaneous release.
Wow! All these numbers to hit a golf ball! I thought I was analytic about the golf swing, but this makes me look mild
Lol Mike,
This is all the problem with the Golfing Machine, it can be very complex at first sight but it is also very precise!
My goal here is to approach all this in layman terms and provide practical reference and tips
.
Glad to hear it John! My analytic mind can only keep track of so many numbers and thoughts LOL! I do agree with you and your site, that lag is critical to power and distance, which is what my site is all about.
A word regarding physical abilities required to play good golf:
I would had that I was really surprised that how much effort and physical it requires to drag/drive a lagging clubhead.
This is an incredibly heavy feel: I told you I’m quite an athlete – well, a properly loaded clubhead weights a ton and you better be strong or your structure (the flying wedges) will collapse under the stress.
This should give you a feel for what you must look for!
Needless to say that when you strike the ball with such a mass it travels miles away with consistency!
Okay John!
One word. UGH!
My normal contact is a thin, clunky sound, and many times off the toe.
Today we had a 2-3 club wind on the range, so I was definitely swinging harder, but every time I tried to compress the ball with every thing we’ve been talking about, the ball goes RIGHT by quite a bit.
What I was worried about, and thought might happen, seemed like it happened.
I was trying to maintain lag, and the club came into the ball WIDE OPEN. The clubhead never caught up and got in front of me in the thru swing.
The harder I tried the worse it got!
UGH! UGH! UGH!
Very frustrating sorry to say.
To Mike and Others:
The follow-up to mike’s question can be found here:
http://www.golflagtips.com/focus-on-pressure-points-to-feel-lag/#comment-191
John,
I want to tell you I played with my playing partner today, and he couldn’t believe my ball contact. He said it’s NEVER been that good. I want to give you a BIG thanks for all your help in here! This is a fantastic site, and you back it 100%.
You have a loyal follower in me on your site. When you interact with your commentators it is awesome! Please keep it up when you get the time to do so, as we all know you have more things to do with your time
Best,
Mike
John,
As a relative newcomer to golf is the feeling of the swinger one of keeping the back to the target and straightening the right arm or have i misunderstood?
i dont understand the part about “throw the clubface face up under the plane.”
Could you expand on that for me please.
Great site…Ive had lessons with several pros,none of whom have ever mentioned lag.
I’m hoping you can put me right.
Cheers,
Damian Garside U.K
Welcome Damian to the wonderful world of Golf!
Indeed Lag is never covered by club pros because today’s golf instruction is mainly about “position golf”: trying to make you look like the pros by stepping from one “static” station to another.
In this process, dynamics are completely put aside.
I wish I could have known that when I started playing golf 9 years ago – that would have saved me a couple of years!
Lag is your priority: the need for creating and sustaining Lag in your own golf swing will help a lot in putting your body in the correct positions!
Now, back to your questions about Swinging:
90% of new golfers are slicing. This happens because they think they must “push” the ball toward the target. This intention leads them to “steer” the CLUBFACE in an attempt to square it early to the intended line of flight.
Steering the clubface is often done by doing the “over the top” move of the right shoulder: throwing it out in front instead of lowering it.
So, your feel of keeping the back to the target and straightening the right arm is exactly doing the opposite and tends to put your club on the right track going down.
From there, all you have to do is throwing the clubface wide open as if you would hit the ball with the hosel, trusting that centrifugal force will line everything up at the last moment. Not doing that is Steering.
This is scary for slicers because they intuitively feel that the face will stay wide open and think they’ll slice more!
This is a test of faith!
But remember to add to the equation that little feeling of heaviness in your trigger finger all the way down or the magic will not happen
!
Enjoy the beginning of your journey!
John,
Thanks for clearing that up so quick.
One question…all the pros I’ve had lessons from state you must rotate the wrists through impact for power (release the clubhead).
Is that required ?
Can you create lag that way or have I been ripped off?
Cheers,
Damian Garside
No way Damian: This is a very common misconception of the release even among the best players.
You must not rotate your wrists through impact but well AFTER impact.
If you rotate through impact you will constantly have timing problems.
You must first perform the selected hinge action (Swinging/Hitting), go to both arms straight (end of the follow through) and ONLY AFTER swivel your left forearm to put the clubshaft on plane again.
It’s only then that the clubhead will be allowed to go above the hands.
Check frames 8-9-10-11 from this sequence: http://www.flickr.com/photos/golflagtips/2231145322/sizes/o/
You clearly see that the rotation happens only at frame 11 and not during frames 8-9-10
Master impact as frames 8-9-10 and frame 11 will happen on its own.
john,
Thanks for that.Feel like I’ve been paying for nothing!
Just got back from the range and I’m amazed!
Feels like I’m swinging to the top,keeping my back to the target and hitting the back of my right hand into the ground outside my right foot.
When I manage to keep the pressure on my right trigger finger throughout the shot results are brilliant!
My seven iron is going about 150 yards dead straight and it actually sounds like a golf shot and feels like I’m hitting fresh air!
(150 yards might not sound a lot but believe me,its about 30 yards further than I normally hit it!)
Have you any other swing thoughts for maintaining the other pressure points?
Great Job Damian, you are doing things right one step at a time.
Take your time; your next step is to acquire more and more comfort with those new feelings.
For now on, focus on your hands: put your mind in your hands while you swing.
Concentrate on the pressures: Trigger index finger and last three fingers of your left hand.
Think slow and heavy instead of quick and jerky.
Sense that you create pressure during the transition from backswing to downswing and sense that those pressures are kept still/constant/steady all the way to both arms straight (remember: constant pressure = clubhead accelerating) – this is Lag – the Secret!
I think I might be in a better position to be a hitter. I’m shorter 5′8 and more stalky not slender. So trying to swing is much harder. Would you agree John?
Jake,
The Hitting stroke favors muscle power, short backswing, slow startdown. Body power is secondary.
So if you are strong and less supple, Hitting fits perfectly.
For example, woman and children tend to be very supple and do not favor muscle power – they naturally go toward Swinging. They use the elasticity of their tendons to pull the club.
In regard to this, I’m convinced that a lot of players that came to Golf late would be more comfortable using their muscles in a Hitting motion than trying to feel the “elasticity” required in the Swinging motion.
As a former pro Tennis player, I’m both (still!) supple and have lotsa power in my right arm – I can do both but actually I love Hitting.
John,
I think I’m like you then. Both strong and supple, but I feel like I’m a hitter. I do not have the long flowing follow through that I would love to have
Mike
Mike,
In your last video you mostly look like a Swinger.
But you should give Hitting a try as it will help you learning and feeling the differences.
You are strong, have trouble with your rotation, don’t like the opening of your clubface early in the backswing and already experimented with active right arm straightening… all the perfect ingredients!
Use the current article as a guideline if you wish to try.
Best regards.
Hi John,
I am curious about the back arm being the piston and therefore the power. I am a natural right (single) handed person but play any sport requiring 2 hands in a left handed action. I know my right arm is much stronger than my left so do you think this is detrimental to power?
Another thing I feel with the hitter motion is more of my core / trunk rotaing thru the shot together vs a swinger where my hips are much more open at impact. John is this another position to be in as a hitter. More of a connected feeling ala Jimmy Ballard connection (without the lateral move off / on the ball)
Interesting question Peter…
Unfortunately, I have no feedback regarding that.
However, the muscles involved here are the triceps.
Check by doing some pushups if you feel more powerful on the left or the right.
Chance is good that there will be not much difference.
Moreover, Hitting is not reserved to Rambos! We talk more about a determined/voluntary/constant thrust than some kind of violent action.
Impact is violent but the thrust is more “relentless” DOWN & OUT than brutal.
Hi Jake,
Good observation, this is a normal difference between Hitters and Swingers:
The Swinger performs his startdown with what is called “instant hips acceleration” and its power accumulators will be activated one after another: Body power first, uncocking of the left wrist second and roll third.
The Hitter has more a simultaneous activation of the power accumulators because actively straightening the right arm uncocks and rolls the left wrist at the same time (And his body is not as much involved in that rotary power as the Swinger).
In regard to this, you easily understand why you have your hips in advance while Swinging and why you feel more “simultaneous” while Hitting.
One last thing
As a hitter from the top I want to feel like I’m throwing my right arm down and out correct? This should auto move my hips out of the way without me thinking. I just want to make sure I’m reading and understanding all your awesome tips correctly. Thanks!
Correct Jake but remember to push “radially” against the shaft. You want to push down and out as if there was no end.
Your left arm will act as a leach and you won’t be able to drive down to China BUT your intent is to go there!
Your hips should already be out of the way when you start pushing down.
But they do not react to the right arm action.
The sequence is (by the book!):
From the top:
- Your hips bump toward the target while keeping a stationary head (otherwise you’ll sway!)
- This move of the hips initiates the loading of the lag AND lowers your right shoulder down plane (it is now impossible to go in an Other-The-Top move…)
- At this point the hips are already out of the way.
- Your right shoulder is now closer to the ball – you now have enough right arm to do some serious damage to the ground!
- Initiate the Thrust DOWN & OUT, radially against the shaft
- Obliterate the ground and continue to drive down until both arms straight.
…and the green keeper is no longer your friend
!
One more thing: pay special attention to start your right arm thrust as slow as you can.
It is torture for the mind but you won’t believe what you get…
John,
For two days now, I’ve gone out to the range and started with 2 feet back and 2 feet through. I cannot feel the right trigger finger pressure point. I am lagging into impact a bit better, but the pressure point thing is very perplexing to say the least.
I took another face on and down the line video, that I will upload, but it was a bad swing. Right after that, I flushed 6 in a row. Isn’t that golf?
Mike
Very very killer.
I can load the lag decently. I’m getting the feel. Basically when the club goes back I will hit a point where the pressure hits my trigger finger (right index inside pad) and that is when I know to now hold that feeling and start my transition down and out holding that pressure feeling in that spot. I can feel it in my left hand as well.
With irons i understand the down and out but with a driver do I just want to move the ball more up to where my arc is on the up swing? Or for the hitter is this different?
Mike,
I know it is tough to find that pressure when you are not used to it.
I can be more disturbing to realize that we struggle to find it even with the simplest little stroke.
My friend, this only shows you how far you were from true improvement.
We are looking for a feel, a dynamic that exists only in an accelerating motion.
Cease to accelerate and the pressure vanishes.
Try this drill – it’s only mean to help you discover/locate the feel:
Still with basic motion (2 feet back, 2 feet through), try to interrupt your backswing on its way back by immediately going the other way with your hands (to the target (and a bit down also please!)).
In other words, your clubhead is still in its “backswing phase” while your hands are already performing the downswing. This will create clubhead inertia (ie: you are loading the Lag).
Try to feel “elastic” doing that – grip your club firmly but loosen your wrists!
I would be surprised you can’t feel something on your index trigger finger!!!
This is awesome Jake!
Your description is brilliant I dare to say!: “when the club goes back I will hit a point where the pressure hits my trigger finger (right index inside pad) and that is when I know to now hold that feeling and start my transition down and out holding that pressure feeling in that spot”
“I can feel it in my left hand as well”
Very nice too! This is pressure point #2, the last three fingers of the left hand.
Now you that you have your Lag feel, let’s go back to geometry for the Driver:
Let’s use the front-view drawing as a reference: http://www.golflagtips.com/hit-down-on-the-golf-ball-dammit/
The launch monitor data trend for the new drivers is to hit up on the ball for better results – well why not?
Let’s assume this is what you want to do.
Well, Hitting or Swinging, nothing changes except ball location in the arc of the swing:
You just have to locate Low Point (opposite your right shoulder) and put the ball slightly UP and IN after that point.
The trick here is to understand that even if you are hitting the ball when your clubhead is on its way UP and IN your intent is still to drive DOWN and OUT.
Even after impact you are still pushing DOWN and OUT because your right arm is not yet fully extended and this is the direction it continues to push to.
The only reason your clubhead is going UP and IN while you are pushing DOWN and OUT is because of your left arm acting as a leach!
A bit counterintuitive (like many things in Golf) but perfectly right when you think about it
!
I actually did that yesterday by relaxing my wrists a bit. My only concern with this in a full swing is a jerky transition from the top. I have found, that when I feel like I have a pause at the top, and don’t come down so violently, I have a better downswing sequence.
With the above drill in a full swing, I am afraid it would not be a smooth transition.
I am wondering more and more, if it is WRIST tension that is not allowing me to feel that pressure on the shaft. I have a tendency to bear down on the grip right before I take it away, which would also tighten (lock up) my wrists.
Just a thought sir
Mike
John,
“Try this drill – it’s only mean to help you discover/locate the feel:
Still with basic motion (2 feet back, 2 feet through), try to interrupt your backswing on its way back by immediately going the other way with your hands (to the target (and a bit down also please!)).
John, this change of direction you speak of is crucial, I was doing this just last night, so much easier to drag (swing) the left OR push (hit) the rt hand. Its the best thing you can do to guard against clubhead throw away. See Hogans “mini swing” in his book…..
To Mike:
This jerkiness is perfectly normal on your way of discovering Lag pressure.
You currently are at a point where you cannot regulate it on a full swing: You load a great amount of Lag but can’t sustain it on the way down.
You are discovering, for the moment, that you can manage it better with a less violent transition – the pressure is weaker but you can sustain it all the way down.
Yes, WRIST tension is a killer. You must separate GRIP tension (hold it strong – forget about “holding the bird” crap!) and WRIST tension (it should feel “elastic” and free).
Keep thinking!
To Coltsfan:
Yes this is a good drill to sense the LOADING of the Lag.
It helps creating clubhead inertia. Then, from there your job is to sustain it (keep the pressure intact) until both arms straight.
I’m having trouble viewing the photos (using Firefox on a Mac). I get only a gray block when I click on any one of them. Any suggestions?
Hi Vince,
Strange behaviour, have you tried with another browser?
I do not have a Mac but I’ve tried with Safari on PC and it works fine…
If it’s still not working, you can directly follow the links on the photos by opening them on a new tab: Right click on the photo and “Open link in new tab”.
Hope you’ll be able to work it out!
I opened the website in Safari and I could view the photos with no problem. Clearly a problem with Firefox on the Mac!
Further update: I closed, then re-opened Firefox, and I could view the photos just fine. Go figure!
John,
Thank you so much for this article! Over the past year I finally developed a swing that works for me but I was still concerned because it differed from the “classical” swing and this article has shown me that what I’m doing is actually an alternative “method.” I have a stockier and stronger build. When I started playing about 3 years ago I became frustrated with the “swinger’s” swing and decided to just “muscle” the ball. From the top of my back swing I just “let the hammer drop” so to speak. I lag the club quite a bit and come in pretty steep (but still from the inside.), and as a result I make good contact and my ball flight is very high. I clear my hips just enough to let my arms fly through and so my playing partners have accused me of having an “arm” swing. So, with the “hitting” swing, is it ok not to have a huge hip turn followed by a exagerated shoulder turn and follow-thru as emphasized by T.V golf analysts (ex. Peter Costis- SwingVision). I feel like my follow thru is somewhat short, with my arms extended out on the other side of the impact zone but not completely wrapped around my body…is this normal with the “hitting” swing? Also, I’m still inconsistent at times, but i have a suspicion that it’s because even though I use the “hitting” method but I still bring the club all the way back to parallel on my backswing…could this be the culprit? Sorry for all the questions, and I supposed I should look for the answers on the range, but your article just got my wheels spinning. Thanks again!
-Sam
Hi Sam, and welcome to a fellow Hitter!
As I explained in the article, Hitting is almost unknown to standard Golf instruction because all those guys started playing golf on their youth and Swinging was the only option when the muscles are no there yet!
So they teach and preach Golf that only way, leaving all the guys that favor muscles over suppleness along the road wondering why they feel like the ugly duckling.
“I clear my hips just enough to let my arms fly through”
Correct, the Hitter doesn’t use his body as a source of power but as a structure to push against. The body just accommodates to allow for the right shoulder to go down plane to get closer to the ball. This way there is still plenty of right arm left to drive the ball down to China!
“I feel like my follow thru is somewhat short, with my arms extended out on the other side of the impact zone but not completely wrapped around my body…is this normal with the “hitting” swing? “
Yes, this is characteristic of the Hitter’s stroke: As the Hitter uses his right arm and not centrifugal force to move the clubhead, the action stops when the right arm is fully extended leading to a somewhat shorter finish (see Palmer or JB Holmes).
“my ball flight is very high”
“Also, I’m still inconsistent at times, but i have a suspicion that it’s because even though I use the “hitting” method but I still bring the club all the way back to parallel on my backswing…could this be the culprit?”
If done properly, this is very tough to come close to parallel with the Hitting stroke:
One way to get it too far is by cocking the right wrist. By doing that you disrupt the right arm flying wedge: in layman’s terms – your right forearm is no longer in a position to strongly push behind the shaft. Precision and power loss.
Bend your right wrist but do not cock it at any time.
I suspect also that you may not maintain a flat left wrist through impact.
For the Hitter it relates easily to the right wrist being bent all the time.
Do some pitch shots and check your right wrist at the end of the follow through (both arms straight position): it must not be allowed to flatten. If it is the case, focus on keeping it frozen in its bent condition during ALL the stroke! It will feel weird but it is correct and will look correct on video!
Good Golf!
John,
UGH! I still can’t get it! On the course all my wedges are THIN, TOE and WEAK RIGHT! Arghhhh!!!!!!!
I have no spine tilt at impact, and no compression.
Mike
Calm down Mike, one thing at a time – (by the way, spine tilt has nothing to do with your results – why are you mentioning that anyway, I never talked about that???)
Have you tried Hitting like I’ve told you in a previous comment?
I’m calm, just frustrated! I bring up spine tilt, as EVERY instructor who’s seen my videos have mentioned it without me saying a word. I basically reverse pivot, then slide on the downswing causing me to throw and flip the club at impact.
I think this could be one of the causes of my flipping.
Hi John,
2 questions for you:
What loading procedure do you prefer for hitting? I was experimenting over the weekend with float loading (using a slight lagging club head take away) w/ mid body hands (vs. impact fix) and it seemed to really help sutain the lag longer. I know that most hitters use impact fix set up and drive load, but this seemed to have promise.
Also, after “both arms striaght” what should the arms do? Should they move back up the inclined plane? Is the rt. wrist still bent in the follow through/finish?
Thanks!
Hi Coltsfan,
For Hitting I prefer to start at impact fix and mainly use drive loading.
For those wondering what is float loading: you just don’t cock your left wrist/bend your right wrist before startdown. This loading procedure can be used for Hitting and Swinging as well.
So, I can float load while Hitting but it sometimes makes me “forget” during the load that I’m Hitting and risk ending up “switting” – dragging and pushing at the same time while Drive loading hasn’t this ambiguity.
I use float loading for swinging because I get the feel that the hands are always in a condition to drag the club – backswing & downswing – which is very useful to feel clubhead lag.
If you do that for hitting, you must be careful to “discard” that DRAGING feel at transition and switch to a PUSHING feel.
But this is really a matter of preference: if you feel more comfortable doing it this is perfectly right – provided you really DRIVE with your right arm on the downswing and keep those wrists frozen along with your flying wedges.
One more thing: The Hitter tends to establish extensor action right at address – to establish the flying wedges structure right away and keeping everything intact (“frozen”). This is more critical to do with float loading.
In my own experience, I was having the feeling that float loading was providing a bigger “slap” on the ball.
But in fact, if you know the endless belt effect, I just end up with a smaller pulley (less mass) AND a high clubhead speed versus Drive Loading where I end up with a bigger pulley (more mass) AND less clubhead speed.
The result is the same: same distance. But I have a preference with Drive Loading because the “slower clubhead/more mass” combination makes me more accurate than the “faster/less mass” combination.
But again this is a matter of personal preference.
Now, regarding the both arms straight position, yes, your right wrist is bent all the time – less bent actually at both arms straight but still bent. AND it will never flatten followthrough to finish.
In fact, if you Hit “by the book”, you setup at impact fix, freeze you wrists in their condition and keep them like that during the whole stroke to the finish:
- Left: stays flat – but allowed to cock/uncock,
- Right: stays bend – but allowed to bend more/less – never straighten.
After both arms straight, the arms “Swivel” back to plane. This is almost an automatic move: the more you continue to strongly drive down with your right arm UNTIL both arms straight and AFTER impact, the more strongly your clubhead will move up plane and its momentum will carry you to the finish swivel very easily.
A big answer! But I hope I’ve helped sorting things up!
Quite a thread you got going here!
Okay John…I’ve been working my ass off trying to get my lower body to initiate the downswing to no avail.
I also have a VERY STEEP plane coming down, which is making me “come up” and out of my posture, resulting in the FLIP at the bottom with no compression or divot.
I am at my “wits end” here, as this should not be that hard for me to get, as I was a world ranked athlete and consider myself FAR ABOVE in fitness, agility and hand-eye coordination.
I have been on countless forums, conversing with well-respected people like yourself and I’m STILL hitting thin shots that go off target right and pull hooks left.
WTF????
I am getting so tired of this.
On the range I can find a “feel” and compress my short and mid-irons, but on the course that is ALL GONE and my OLD swing shows up time and time again.
So now what? Quit the game as a 7 handicap “hack golfer” who never could “get” the golf swing?
I’ve never been a quitter, but I no martyr either.
All this time, money and EMOTION for very little return “on the course”.
Mike
John. Thanks for the reply.
Mike,
I wish I was a 7 hcp. I have been playing about 6 years and I’m a 12 at best. Unless you have tour aspirations just work on those TGM basic and acquired motions,and enjoy the ride. Remember its golf, you gotta laugh or you’ll just cry
Hi John
About two years ago I discovered lag using the hitting technique. I felt the pressure points that you describe on my hands and I had the feeling of “going down” and getting the ball. It felt so good. But I lost it and I can’t seem to get that swing back.
I seem to be hitting fat shots that don’t go anywhere. I can’t seem to get the club to bottom out in front of the ball. Does the pushing with the right elbow begin immediately from the start down? Also, I’m not sure how my right shoulder fits into this motion. When I was hitting well, I remember feeling my right shoulder going down or dipping down. Does this make any sense??
Northstar
Hey John,
Great site man. Been following it for a while but only from outside in because I am currently on the stack and tilt wagon. I see a lot of things here that do not contradict the S&T.
I have just discovered the forefinger pressure point thru reading S&T posts on flying wedges. And, even from my very shallow understanding of it, it has transformed my game tremendously. I mean like day and night.
In three months I have been transformed from an incurable Fat hitter to a solid ball compression type hitter.
I have dropped from 90s shooter to low 80s shooter in that time but I feel I can do even better.
Now, my question is, is there anything here that contradicts the S&T? I know its a banal question but I fear losing what ever I have achieved so far.
Cheers and hopefully I have not offended anyone….
To Mike:
Take one pill at a time. Eating the whole box won’t do the magic!
Coltsfan is right: the correct curriculum is to work on Basic motion (2 feet back, 2 feet through) FIRST and to move to acquired motion SECOND and then to total motion.
A hacker going directly to total motion thinking he can discover TRUE lag this way is going to face certain failure…
Basic motion is not a chip shot; it is a miniature Swing where it is easier to focus on the impact zone. Thus your goal is to perform a geometrically perfect shot in such a small move (should be piece of cake uh?):
- flat left wrist,
- bent right wrist,
- go to low point,
- straighten your right arm,
- feel a steady pressure in your index finger,
- go down and out,
- compress the ball
Because the shot is small and slow, it is very easy to see if you one of the above is incorrect.
It may take a thousand balls to get a TRUE feel for it.
But once it’s there you’ll have it forever and be happy.
Hi Northstar,
“Does the pushing with the right elbow begin immediately from the start down?
Also, I’m not sure how my right shoulder fits into this motion. When I was hitting well, I remember feeling my right shoulder going down or dipping down. Does this make any sense??”
The right elbow MUST NOT begin to straighten immediately from the startdown. If you do so you will run out of right arm before you reach to the ball – leading to fat or thin shots to save the shot.
The first move at startdown is to lower the right shoulder.
Why? Because this will make you closer to the ball and from there you’ll have plenty of right arm to drive down into the ground.
Look for the boxer analogy I used in the post above.
By the way, lowering the right shoulder is done by doing a hip slide towards the target WHILE maintaining a stationary head (no bob/sway). So this would be your first move at start down.
For you, the right arm FEEL would be to wait as long as you can before activating & straightening it (it FEELs like torture the first time!).
Also it is MANDATORY that your use a slow start down with your right arm for the same reason as above: you wont expend your right arm before going into the right position with your right shoulder.
Have fun!
Hey Jools,
“I have just discovered the forefinger pressure point thru reading S&T posts on flying wedges. And, even from my very shallow understanding of it, it has transformed my game tremendously. I mean like day and night.”
Lag Pressure is pure magic
S&T doesn’t contradict with what you see here because S&T has its roots deep in The Golfing Machine and all this site is all about explaining TGM in Layman’s terms.
However, TGM is kind of a catalog of parts to assemble Golfing patterns (in order to create a Golfing Machine!).
As in a machine, some parts are compatible while others are not but every machine obeys the same laws (like Lag pressure, flying wedges, flat left wrist…)
S&T is only a Pattern built on top of the Golfing Machine (Plummer & Bennett make no secret of that), exactly like Hitting and Swinging.
So, there is a lot of helpful information on that site that you can use with confidence with your S&T pattern.
Welcome aboard!
Hi John, Stumbled on this site and it is just what I was looking for. Information on Golfing Machine’s hitting which I’ve been working on. A question on pressure points. During swing I understand pp#1 and pp#3 but pp#2 is one I don’t understand. To sense pp#2, I have to resist swing with left arm. Is that what you are supposed to do?
Paul
Hi Psomers nice to have a new Hitter on board!
Pp#2 is related to the left wrist cocking/uncocking. And can be sensed with the last three fingers of your left hand.
The pressure is felt on the aft part of the shaft in the last knuckles of your fingers and appears at Start Down (like pp#3 and pp#1).
Just grip the club with your left hand only and drag it on the ground and you’ll get a feel for it.
However Hitting is about pushing the club with the right arm, not dragging with the left… so how the hell can a pressure happen in those fingers???
All is about PASSIVE and ACTIVE pressures:
When a Hitter actively straightens his right arm, he pushes against the thumb of his left hand with his right hand (PP#1) and the shaft with his right index finger.
Those two pressures are ACTIVE pressures in regard to PP#2 which is more of a PASSIVE pressure!
So, for the Hitter, PP#2 FEELs PASSIVE (as opposed to the Swinger’s where it will feel ACTIVE!).
To feel it “PASSIVELY” happening, do this drill:
- Hold you club on your left hand only.
- Hold your left wrist with your right hand as you would grip you club.
- Bend and straighten your right arm.
On the downswing, because you don’t have your right hand on the grip to support Lag, you’ll easily FEEL a pressure in the last three fingers of your left hand as your clubhead will Lag behind.
There you go! You now have PP#1,2 & 3 FEELs!
Now that you know what it FEELs like, with your normal grip, just let this FEEL “happen” again:
Feel a little inertia as you go from backswing to startdown: even if you push against the shaft, your hands are moving forward while your clubhead, with its inertia, will want to trail the same as you did with the “hold your fist” drill.
Hey John!
Just thought I’d say hi! My swing is coming along nicely. I’ve had a series of lessons from a very good swing instructor, and he fixed my grip and setup, and now it is much easier to find the middle of the face and compress the ball.
I still struggle with throwing (flipping), but have some drills to ingrain the right feel, and PP#1 is one I am now aware of.
I still think your site is one of the best for golfers to learn lag, compression and solid contact.
Hey Mike!
Thanks for the compliments! I’m happy to see that you’ve taken the road to success again.
Sometimes it takes longer to find THE FEEL but you’re in the right place to learn and always welcome here.
Take care.
John
Thank you for making all of this understandable, really takes so much of the mystery out of the tgm ideas.
Can I ask you, do all of these prinicples apply to a driver as well as they do the irons.
Is there anything different to do when swinging the driver.
WOW, what a wonderful site. I’ve been baffled by the TGM book and you simplify it so I can understand it. My question concerns the driver and fairway woods with the hitting motion. I am a hitter and my irons shots are great and I can hit them long and straight. My problem is with the driver and fairway woods. Very inconsistent. Anything special I need to know about “hitting” them.
To JohnnyNight and John Cortese
Yes EVERYTHING is the same from Wedges to Driver!!!
It is tough to understand for a majority of Golfers but the geometry of the circle and the Physics are the same for EVERY club: Only the ball location changes:
With the Driver the ball is located AT low point and with a Wedge it is located UP and BACK on the plane BUT the geometry/physics are the same!
The problem many Golfers face with the woods is that the ball is very close to low point and they frequently associate low point with the end of the thrust.
This leads to a slowdown of the hands at low point and a failure to compress the ball with the Driver.
There are two very important things to do with the Driver:
– Continue to Drive DOWN and OUT to the both arms straight position (end of the followthrough)
– Straighten the right arm without straightening the right wrist (keep it bent!).
John,
You have a wonderful site and clearly have a great understanding of the Golfing Machine. What really stands out is how clearly you can express the concepts without to much technical jargon.
There are some really fine points but a couple that stick out.
1. Running out of right arm syndrome. I had read about this and not fully understood the cause but its now clear that if I thrust early without moving the shoulder down the plane line this is the inevitable result. My instructor had told me about moving my left hip as you describe but I could not see the end game, now I do. I assume this is the “hula” move that is referenced at a few sites?
2. The geometric relationship with the driver. You don’t hear it talked about much but understanding the ball position, the arc of the swing, the relationship to the ball target line are very critical. It seems like if one wants to hit a lower drive than place the ball slightly back and inside of low point, normal I would place at the low point, and higher in front and inside of low point. The key it seems is one should still make the same swing arch and let the ball get in the way, something very difficult to accept?
On a couple of your pictures I have a couple questions, the cross line thrust (believe this is 2-J-3) is there anything you use as a guide to the direction of the thrust? Does your aiming point in front of the ball relate to this thrust direction?
Thanks,
Greg (gmbtempe)
Welcome Greg!
Thanks again, I’m happy that you can find helpful information here!
1. Running out of right arm syndrome…/… I assume this is the “hula” move that is referenced at a few sites?
Exact. This “hula” move is the sliding of the hips towards the target with a stationary “tripod” (a steady head in the middle of your feet) – exactly like playing with a hula hoop: only the hips are moving, not the head or the feet.
This little “bump” of the hips drops the right shoulder down plane (this will also eliminate the Over The Top move) and sets your right arm closer to the ball to deliver the hitting punch to it.
2. The geometric relationship with the driver…/…It seems like if one wants to hit a lower drive than place the ball slightly back and inside of low point, normal I would place at the low point, and higher in front and inside of low point. The key it seems is one should still make the same swing arch and let the ball get in the way, something very difficult to accept? ?
A very good point here Greg: to change the ball flight you can change those parameters:
- ball position in the arc of the swing
- grip – stronger/weaker
- plane line relative to the target line – right/left
…BUT, the swing is always the same and as you’ve said, the ball is just in the way.
This is indeed very difficult to accept because the natural instinct is to steer the ball toward the target.
Playing with a stronger/weaker grip to can also feel a lot different/uncomfortable and the temptation is great to manipulate the clubhead at impact instead of letting it go.
The key is to understand and accept the geometry of the stroke and trust it regardless of ball position/grip/plane line.
…/…
…the cross line thrust (believe this is 2-J-3) is there anything you use as a guide to the direction of the thrust? Does your aiming point in front of the ball relate to this thrust direction?
Bingo again!
The cross line thrust is described in 2-J-3-B for hitting.
The Hitter only sees lines (not arcs).
Aiming Point and thrust direction are not the same.
First, let me explain how I set up the “direction of the thrust” (aka the Straight Line Angle of Approach Delivery Line!):
Check my right forearm at address in picture #1 (eye-view and front-view): It is pointing somewhere DOWN, OUT and FORWARD to right field.
Now look at the arrow I’ve drawn on picture #2 (eye-view and front-view): It is the EXACT mental image I construct during the Hitting stroke…
How do I set up this guide: easy – the arrow is pointing at the same direction and angle as my right forearm was set up at address!
Therefore, all I have to do is to mentally draw a line parallel to my right forearm at address.
This line will go DOWN, OUT and FORWARD and must cross the Plane Line.
This is the direction of my thrust.
Notice that with the Driver, that line will point more FORWARD and LESS DOWN/OUT than with a wedge!
The point where this line is crossing the base of the plane line is the Aiming Point!!!
I can then move the Aiming Point where I need to while maintaining the angle and direction of my Delivery Line!
John,
I really appreciate the comments, I did have an additional question ton the right elbow position in hitting. I always keep it very close to my right side and dont let it “fly” much. When I do use a shorter backswing for hitting and let the elbow come of it forms more of a perpendicular angle to the shaft which I feel gives me more leverage to push the club, its a bit more like a baseball hitters position. I know they talk about punch elbow position but not sure if this is one of the same thing or if this is something to not even mess around with.
Hi John,
If I use a straight line delivery path from the top, do I need to do anything to get the shaft on plane before going into impact? i.e.”flatten the shaft” so the shaft does not come into impact too steep or OTT.
This guy, http://www.golfbetterproductions.com/lie-angle.asp (scroll down for plane board example) says that the shaft must come back down from the top to the original shaft plane before impact by moving the hands away from the target before you pivot, otherwise you will come OTT. Whats your take on that?
Great work John!
Looks like you’re getting quite a following John! This is a fantastic, very informative blog for any golfer wanting to become a better ball striker.
My swing is slowly coming along, thanks to your site, and a few other great tips from reputable instructors.
Cheers,
Mike
Hi John,
Hope all is well, it doesnt look like you have been around for a week or so. Do you like the rt elbow to be in more of a pitch or punch condition when hitting?
Thanks
Hi Coltsfan
Everything is fine my friend, this is only summer holydays and I’m enjoying a few days off!
For the hitter I hugely prefer the right elbow to be in a punch condition.
The elbow position has a dramatic effect on the whole swing and it is far easier to get in the right condition for hitting with a punch elbow.
One thing I like with the punch elbow is that it restricts your backswing to the required length for hitting: you cannot make a big backswing (and forget about overswing!) and this is perfect from the hitter’s point of view.
The punch elbow also places your right forearm in the correct supporting position for drive loading: dead behind the shaft and that’s very good.
John,
Do you have a face on close up image of the “punch” right arm? That would be very helpful.
Cheers,
Mike
Cheers John. ColtsFan and the rest of us are just happy to hear all is well with you!
Your Friend,
Kevin
John,
Thanks buddy, hope you had a great time w/ the family. I had used a punch elbow when I was experimenting w/Hardy but the circle delivery path was tough to grasp. The straight line delivery path on the other hand has been a revelation!!!
Enjoy the weekend everybody…
I just found your site today…tips look amazing. I think I am more of a natural “hitter” than “swinger.” I plan to work on the “drag the wet mop” tips as soon as possible. But before I start, which swing type should I go after? Here is a video from last night that might help…thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUg2cPVu-DI
Reading up on golf swings. It sounds like the Jimmy Ballard method is a good way for hitters to go?
John what do you think or know about Jimmy Ballards methods? Its all right side firing hard down into the ball. Sounds like a hitter to me.
I am just curious.
To Greg Brown
…I know they talk about punch elbow position but not sure if this is one of the same thing or if this is something to not even mess around with.
Elbow position is very important to support the intented loading action.
For drive loading (Hitting), you’ll be better of with a punch elbow. The elbow will be more “behind” the shaft in a supporting position for pushing down instead of dragging the club (Swinging) and having a pitch position (elbow closer to your navel).
As a result, a punch elbow is looking more like a flying elbow than the pitch elbow.
Play around with different albow location and you’ll see how well the punch elbow suits the Hitting motion.
To Coltsfan
… If I use a straight line delivery path from the top, do I need to do anything to get the shaft on plane before going into impact? i.e.”flatten the shaft” so the shaft does not come into impact too steep or OTT.
The only move you need is a slide of the hips towards the target at the top WITHOUT MOVING YOUR HEAD towards the target (that would be sway).
This is why it is often referred as the “hula-hula” move: your hips are free to move between a stationary head and the feet.
This has the consequence of lowering your right shoulder exactly downplane and avoiding the dreaded OTT move!
From there you can hit as hard as you want, there is no way you can go OTT from such a position!
It will take a bucket of balls at the range to properly get it. You will have the feel of doing a big slide towards the target but it will be hardly noticeable on video!
Your will notice an immediate change in your ball fight and will go from fade to light draw.
This guy, http://www.golfbetterproductions.com/lie-angle.asp (scroll down for plane board example) says that the shaft must come back down from the top to the original shaft plane before impact by moving the hands away from the target before you pivot, otherwise you will come OTT. Whats your take on that?
Why not, but this is complicated because he is shifting planes during the stroke.
He uses what is called the “hands plane” and this is a very flat plane. It is not very natural to stay on that plane during the stroke. As a result you can see that on frame #3 he has switched to a higher more comfortable plane: the shoulder plane (hands and right shoulder are on the same plane). Then on the downswing he tries to come back to the lower hands plane…
All those plane shifts are not the easier way, don’t you think?
This is lot easier and natural to stay on the “Turned Shoulder Plane” – no plane shift here.
Again, from frame #3, he should just do the Hip Slide move to get his hands and right shoulder downplane.
This is just enough to be in the perfect position to deliver the blow on the right plane (instead he his forcing his hands down independently of his body).
John,
Ahhh it’s all becoming a LOT clearer now. Along the same lines John I have noticed when I have the “feel” of keeping my back facing the target a little bit longer on the downswing that I am no longer coming OTT. I hitting more pured shots than ever w/ this swing thought.
Apparently I have been throwing my rt shoulder out way too early in the DS, coming down steep and out side in. Your tips along w/ the “feel” (feel is not always real) of my back facing the target has made a huge difference in my ball striking. Thanks
To Jake
John what do you think or know about Jimmy Ballards methods? Its all right side firing hard down into the ball. Sounds like a hitter to me.
Hi Jake, I’m not familiar with Ballards methods. I’ve checked one of his vids where he talks about firing the right side down into the ball.
To me he is only describing the loading of the lag and the sensation of the right shoulder going downplane instead of around (fore right!) in a proper swinging motion: the underhand pitch sensation he describes is proper to the Swinger and foreign to the Hitter.
He his describing a dragging sensation starting from transition that makes every right part of your body come closer to the ball – somewhat downplane towards the ball.
In TGM term’s that would be translated into loading the lag by using the hip slide move at the end of the backswing.
This hula move of the hips towards the target will lower your right shoulder and make your “right side” go downplane along with loading the lag.
To Sjwamo
Swings without a ball are less valuable than with a ball!
However, you are whirling your club around you, that is typical of a Swinger.
Hey John, amazing info you got here, however I have a question regarding how the ball position will change the plane of your swinging or hitting? Or is it that when you move the ball from the middle to the back near right foot the ball will be going closer in position to your body (more downward in a bird eye view)? And when you move it forward it goes farther away from your body (upward in a bird eye view)? So the plane stays the same but the ball move according to the plane line?
thx
Hey John,
I love the sight. I have been experimenting with S&T and this seems to fit right in. My question is in regards to aim. When looking at the pictures for “what the hitter sees” I notice that the club face is pointed well right of the stance line. It seems obvious that this kind of inside to out action will produce a draw, but where exactly is this guy aiming? Do we need to line our feet up well left of the target in order to make this work or should we be able to draw the ball back all the way to our stance line? Also, it seems as if the club head is pointed almost 30 degrees right of the target, is this a good model? Thanks.
John,
First and foremost, thank you for all the effort and time you have put into the site. The information is clear, concise and exceptionally well presented.
If release timing variation is proportional to variation in club Moment of inertia (MOI)
Then :
For swing weight matched clubs –
#1 – Maintain constant ball position and vary aim point to shift release point
Or
#2 – Maintain constant aim point and vary ball position to shift release point
For MOI matched clubs –
Maintain constant ball position and aim point across all clubs (assuming one swing for all is used)
The choice of MoI vs Swing wieght as a matching critera seems to have significant impact on swing execution.
Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated
Tommy
I’m a hitter. 3 hcp and have not played a round in over a year. Been working Lynn Blake’s advise and revamping the swing. I have taken a little here are there from different Golfing Machine Teachers – Great added value at this website.
??? I tend to find that I perform better when I release ACC #2 at my aiming point. I can feel it starting to release prior but the main thrust is at my aiming point, along with ACC#1 extension. There has been some talk about the four barrel, but have you experimented with a forceable release of the right hip rotation after ACC #2 to add power? If it makes sense to release AAC #2 at my aiming point with my irons. Would you suggest a release of the ACC #2 before my aiming point with my dirver???
Thanks – keep up the good work!!!
Hi Barty
Nice question you have here!
Aiming point is confusing for a lot of people and I’ll write a post on that topic alone.
Aiming point is where you aim/direct your hands at on the downswing.
Yes, with the driver you MUST aim before the ball (on its right for righties) because the longer leverage (longer shaft!) will take longer to release (this relates to the #2 ACC you are feeling) and you must give it enough time to go there.
A wedge is the opposite: shorted leverage, heavier head = faster release! Aiming point must be located after the ball (on its left for righties) to compensate for a quicker release.
Any thoughts on: There has been some talk about the four barrel, but have you experimented with a forceable release of the right hip rotation after ACC #2 to add power? I’m talking about a righ handed hitter.
Thanks for your response.
PS Recently I just changed shafts and went with the Project X 6.0 and had to completly change my aiming point to adjust to the kick.
Wow, thanks a lot John for sharing your knowledge! Hey could you talk about ball location when striking the ball? Clive Scarf in Hit Down Dammit, says that you should generally have the ball just behind the left heal for all clubs, but his swing theory in my opinion is a cross between a “swinging” and “Hitting” swing. I have a hitting swing and just curious if you have a thought on this?
Thanks again,
Bill
Bill,
If you’ve read the http://www.golflagtips.com/hit-down-on-the-golf-ball-dammit/ post, you know that the geometry of the circle is the same for Hitting and Swinging.
And so is low point: located in front of your left shoulder for all your clubs – which is by the way a more precise location than opposite the left heel.
Knowing that, one true thing is that you must drive your clubhead to low point in order to comply with this geometry and get full leverage. But it does not necessarily mean that the ball must be located at low point will all the clubs.
Think about a wedge shot: If I place the ball at low point (in front of my left shoulder AKA opposite my left heel) I will take no divot at all and this will produce a higher shot.
Now, if I want to hit it very low with the same club I can place the ball very back in my stance and dig a huge divot to low point.
See? This is shotmaking! I place the ball in the circle of the swing in relation to low point according to the shot I wish to perform. Every ball position is correct but you must drive your clubhead to low point.
Placing the ball always at low point is a bad idea because except for your longer clubs, your irons were not designed for that and you’ll end up with balls that go way to high. And there is no way to dig a divot in front of the ball with your irons.
If tour players were doing that you would never see them throw huge pork chops of grass in the sky with their wedges!
Check here also: http://www.golflagtips.com/proper-divot-location-well-ahead-of-the-ball/
Hope you’re not in a rush for an answer Bill!
John’s not been on here in months!
I was wondering if that was the case. I am grateful for what he started anyways.
Thanks Bill and Damian – but don’t be so fast burying me!
A brand new Golf season is pointing its nose and here I go almost repaired from my ruptured Achilles tendon.
At least I can walk which means I can now go down the fairway and rip that ball!
Greeeeeeeedy I am!
Let’s go to work, I have plenty of questions to read and plenty of answers to give!
Welcome back John!!!
I’m very sorry to hear of your injury, but happy to hear you are healing. I hope you get back on the course very soon my friend!
Kevin
Been done 9 holes 5 times now, hurrah!!!
It hurts a bit but what a pleasure to play again!
Ok, ok I’ll show the scar!